.40 TS load recipes

[TC2415]

Hi all,

I just got my Dillon 650XL setup.  Could anyone share a reliable load recipe w/OAL for .40 in a TS making major power factor?

[Wobbly]

Welcome Aboard !!

Just so you know, on this forum we tend not to quote exact loads for the simple reason that every gun is different. Users here can guide you with load ranges, bullet weights for best accuracy, and powders for best performance (or to help make PF). We can also help you with your XL650 setup, reloading bench work, and various accessories (both Dillon and third party) you might find helpful.

Once you get your components, we can help you with your testing and load tuning. You'll probably need your own chrono. We can also make suggestions there.

First thing we'd like to know is how much reloading experience you have. And what led you to choose 40 cal.

Lastly I see you have 2 duplicate threads. I have deleted one. (Sorry.) You may wish to maintain alll these questions and answers in a single "blog" thread, such as Baldrage has done. Here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=82725.0

All the best.   

[TC2415]

Thank you for the reply.  I have some reloading experience, but only on a single stage press, loading for rifles.  I'm new to reloading for pistols.  I have my Dillon 650 XL ready to go.  I have a chrono. I shoot a Czechmate with a .40 upper from CZC for limited major in uspsa, and the Czechmate in 9mm major for open division.  I have Berry's, Bayou, Eggelston, and Precision bullets. I have WST and Silhouette for powders.  I understand CZ's prefer shorter oals, so I'm really just looking for a starting point to use prinary with WST.

Thanks
Tony

[M1A4ME]

My TS .40 won't chamber the hollow point loads that do fine in my P07 and P09 (but neither will my youngest son's Beretta 90-Two, so it's not just some CZ's).  It's just something you have to check on your pistol.  What I've started doing is loading all my .40's to fit the TS, they'll just be a little shorter in the P07/P09.

I can't tell you anything about major/minor.  I just like groups (smaller ones are better).  I really don't have much experience reloading for .40 S&W.  I lucked out on the very first load I tried for Nosler's 135 grain hollow points that I got from the Nosler web site.  I haven't tried any other powder with that bullet or any other jacketed hollow point to this point.

Same for the lead bullet loads.  I wanted something close to the Nosler hollow point in weight to try to mimic the POA/POI on paper for practice and got lucky again.  Got a load from the Alliant web site (I think it was Alliant - the powder used is Herco) and dog gone if I don't get exactly the same POI out to 12 - 15 yds. with the Missouri Bullet Co. 140 grain lead bullets (and the 140 coated lead bullets of the same style).  Good groups, too.

I've bought 180 grain lead bullets for the .40, 165 grain hollow points and some Titegroup powder and haven't even cracked the seal on the powder yet.  Been busy working on 9MM, .45 acp reloading and getting .223 and .308 brass ready to load.

I'll follow your thread though, just to see what you try and what other may suggest.

Good luck.

[Smitty79]

I haven't run either of the powders you mention in 40.   As Wobbly says, different guns are different.    My Tac Sport eats 40 with a 1.135 (SAAMI Max) all day.

[painter]

Both Western Powder, and Hodgdon Reloading, have lots of data for those powders for both 9 and 40.

Check them out.

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web-1.pdf

www.hodgdonreloading.com/pistol

[Wobbly]

? One thing you'll quickly find out... the XL650 is going to want to make thousands of loaded rounds. You're going to want to pull hard on the reigns and just do 6-10 rounds of each incremental load. This is going to be tedious, so I hope you still have your single stage press set up.

? I have read that Winchester hadn't published any 9mm loads for WST because it was too "spikey" with the pressures. At any rate, I think all the user data you'll find out there for WST is for Minor PF. You're going to want a slower powder for Major PF, and Silhouette might just fill the bill. Others will be here shortly to advise on that.

? When you shoot Major PF you are typically chasing a velocity. Please take the maximum velocity from the manual with you to the range with the chrono. This because at the top of the load range velocity tends to flatten out, but unseen and concurrently, the chamber pressure begins to skyrocket upward. Chasing "that last 10 fps" is how guns get blown up. And the "faster" the powder, the quicker you get to that event. The cartoon below tries to show that...

I understand CZ's prefer shorter OALs, so I'm really just looking for a starting point...

? That may be a misunderstanding. In Europe, 9mm is only available as round nose ammo. So CZ designed their 9mm chamber around that very forgiving ogive shape. People who comment about the 9mm CZ chamber are generally using conical, SWC, or JHP ogive shapes, not available in Europe.

40cal is generally only popular in the USA due to the FBI; it is not found in Europe. So the CZ chamber on the standard 40cal line is far more generous, at least it was on my P-07 40. I cannot speak to the CzechMate. Clearly the only thing to do is make the measurements yourself. For competition this is very good practice for each bullet you want to load. Follow the directions in the stickie at the top of the forum entitled "How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol". That will settle every question on Max OAL.


Hope this helps.   

[M1A4ME]

Spikey pressures?

I've always been uncomfortable loading near the top of the pressure numbers with any powder but fast burning powders are worse (I read/hear).

I look over the charts in the reloading manuals and take a real interest in the powders that show good velocity with lower pressures.  There seems to always be one or two that are within 50 fps or so of the fastest loads, but still a few thousand psi/cup below the other powders that show comparable velocities.

Not saying that's the best way, just saying I don't like to push near those limits if I can stay away from them.

Not sure how other experienced reloaders feel about that idea/concept/practice.

[painter]

Silhouette will easily make major in 40, and at below max load. WST will be there at max load, but without much cushion.

Silhouette is not a good choice for 9mm and major pf, and there's no WST data for 9mm as Mr. W stated..

Maybe use the Silhouette for competition and the WST for practice.

[Jay Dee]

I also shoot a TS in USPSA Limited. My go-to powder for major is VV N320, under 180 grain bullets. OAL in my gun is 1.148". N320 for major is off the standard charts, but much info can be found at the enos forum.

[IDescribe]

N320 for major is off the standard charts

.40 has only standard charts.  There's no +P for .40.  Best practice is to not exceed load data for .40, regardless of what other people are doing.

[Jay Dee]

Let me clarify, what I wrote earlier sounded like I was suggesting high pressure loads, and that was not my intention. N320 data for 40 major is not widely published. Neither the current Lyman nor Hornady manuals list N320 in the 40 section. However, it is a great powder for major and minor, burns clean and has a pleasant recoil impulse. VihtaVuori themselves only list a single N320 load each for 165 & 180 grain bullets. The loads that many USPSA shooters have been using for years are not +P loads, and I would certainly never suggest hot loads in 40 - just not enough case volume. For sure, start low and work up cautiously.

[Wobbly]

The loads that many USPSA shooters have been using for years are not +P loads, and I would certainly never suggest hot loads in 40 - just not enough case volume.

All loads for 40S&W are +P. 40S&W is +P.

[IronicTwitch]

Power Factor is easy.

Bullet Weight x FPS / 1,000

155gr x 1300 = 201,500 or 201.5 power factor
155gr x 1400 = 217,000 or 217.0 power factor

Not sure what you're trying to do with that load, but that seems REAALLLY hot.

For reference:
Hornady Critical Duty 40SW 175gr at 1010 fps = 176,750 or 176.75 power factor
Federal Personal Defense Ammunition 40 S&W 155 Grain Hydra-Shok at 1140 fps = 176,700 or 176.7 power factor
Buffalo Bore 40SW 180gr at 1100 fps = 198,000 or 198 power factor

I did find one load from Black Hills in 45 ACP +P that has a power factor in the same range of your 40SW load.  I'm not a ballistics expert on the differences in case pressure between them though.

http://www.black-hills.com/product-category/new-pistol-ammo/

Then there's .44 magnum loads with 345 power factor... 
300 Gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
Velocity: 1150 FPS

[IDescribe]

No, they don't.  Not 100 feet/sec.

John, in addition to the charge window Hodgdon reports, it's a good idea to monitor max velocity, as well.  You're a tenth of a grain less than Hodgdon's max load, but you're getting around 100 feet/sec more than their max load.  That suggests there's something going on with your load and gun that was not going on with their load and test fixture.  And while an extra inch of barrel is going to get you a little extra, nowhere near 100 feet/sec.  If you're getting 100 feet/sec greater velocity with a tenth less powder, you should assume you are running at a higher peak pressure than Hodgdon had when they were testing, and .40 has no +P.  You don't want to be overpressure with .40.  That's why they report charge window AND max velocity.    Something to think about.

Something else to think about is that engineers working for Hornady designed that 155gr XTP to operate optimally within a certain velocity range, meaning that when it strikes soft tissue, the hollowpoint will expand at the proper rate to decelerate the bullet at the proper rate, lose as little of its mass as possible, and penetrate to an optimal depth.  Lots of money and man hours go into designing and testing these bullets.   It's intuitive for us end users to think that faster is better with defensive loads MORE POWER!!! -- but in practice having a bullet going faster than it was designed for can reduce it's effectiveness.  As hollowpoint bullets travel faster and faster, when they strike soft tissue, the hollowpoint expands faster than it was designed for, starts decelerating sooner and faster, loses more mass, and can end up penetrating less than a slower round.   And with defensive loads, penetration is key.

If I were loading Hornady XTP bullets for defense, I would check to see what velocity Hornady is running them at, and try to at least get a little close to that velocity -- because Hornady engineers are the ones who know how fast that bullet should be travelling for optimum performance. 

Hornady has their 155gr XTP doing 1180 feet/sec.  You're 200 feet/sec faster than that.  I would slow that load down for that reason alone -- to get it into the range it was designed to operate in.  I'm not saying I would want it at exactly 1180, but somewhere between 1180 and 1250/1260, testing for best accuracy.