Author Topic: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings  (Read 516 times)

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Offline noway

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Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« on: January 22, 2018, 07:27:17 AM »
I have just started reloading with a Turret Press, which is WAY more convenient than the single stage.

After some thought, I have added the Factory Crimp Die to the turret and backed off on the bullet seating die.

I have noticed, however, that I am accumulating brass shavings after crimping.

This is really only a problem with PPU brass, and sometimes with S&B brass, which require steady pressure going in and out, and especially with the PPU leave a bright brass band (not the musical kind) from the case mouth about 1/8" down. I backed off the suggested setting but am still getting this effect on PPU and sometimes on S&B. Again, not happening with any other headstamp.

I have fired a few, with no apparent issues (that may be down the road however).

Is PPU thicker-cased than other brass?

If this were consistently happening with all brass I would suspect the die was defective...

I should add I have only been loading 147 gr. Speer Gold Dots and RMR 147 gr. plated. I have not tried this set-up with 124 gr., which is what I previously loaded.

Offline painter

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 08:06:28 AM »
I'm not a fan of the FCD.

What caused you to decide to add it to your setup?
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Offline Bret

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 05:14:22 PM »
I'm also wondering what problem you're trying to solve.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 05:29:54 PM »
To help,  some questions:
What is the measurement of the taper crimped ammo right at the case mouth after going through the seating die?
What is the measurement  of the case mouth after the FCD?

I've been using the Lee Turret Press for many years and there is some "technique" needed for different bullets.😃

Offline noway

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 07:44:22 PM »
I'm not a fan of the FCD.

What caused you to decide to add it to your setup?

It seems that a few reloaders (maybe not on this forum) seem to believe it does a better job creating a taper crimp than the bullet seating die alone does. However, I haven't seen much/anything that quantifies this.

Good question. Maybe simpler just to let the seating die do the work...

Offline noway

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2018, 07:48:28 PM »
To help,  some questions:
What is the measurement of the taper crimped ammo right at the case mouth after going through the seating die?
What is the measurement  of the case mouth after the FCD?

I've been using the Lee Turret Press for many years and there is some "technique" needed for different bullets.😃

If I had been wearing my thinking cap I might have done this myself (or not). Thanks for the suggestion!

This forum is the best source of real reloading device (rather than simply doing things for form's sake). I have never found a reloading manual that comes close to the knowledge base of the folks here!  :)

Offline painter

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2018, 08:36:31 PM »
I'm not a fan of the FCD.

What caused you to decide to add it to your setup?

It seems that a few reloaders (maybe not on this forum) seem to believe it does a better job creating a taper crimp than the bullet seating die alone does. However, I haven't seen much/anything that quantifies this.

Good question. Maybe simpler just to let the seating die do the work...
The FCD adjusted to Lee's specs will swage the bullet to .355. That's fine if it's a FMJ. If you're loading plated, or lead, not so much. Buy yourself a Lee taper crimp die. It won't mess with the bullet sizing.
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Offline Bret

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 08:48:18 PM »
It seems that a few reloaders (maybe not on this forum) seem to believe it does a better job creating a taper crimp than the bullet seating die alone does. However, I haven't seen much/anything that quantifies this.
Seating and taper crimping in the same step is not advisable because it's very difficult to set the die up correctly.  When each is used in a separate step, what does the Lee FCD do that a regular taper crimp die doesn't?

Offline lewmed

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 10:26:27 PM »
For pistol cartridges I always seat the bullet in one station and taper crimp in the next been working for me for many years. I do the same for revolver cartridges but roll crimp in the last station. I have used a FCD a few times and it works well if it is adjusted right.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 11:57:40 PM »
I've been loading 9mm for a few days now, and I use the FCD only on jacketed bullets, and it does seem to help, considering my seating die generally is set to crimp for lead, i.e., not very much. I can seat and crimp in the same stroke with the seating die on cast lead powder coated bullets without difficulty. I tried using the FCD on them, didn't help at all. FCD used on some other bullets seemed to help accuracy and consistency, but I couldn't swear to it.
If the die is SHAVING brass off your cases, it is not working right, should be squeezing, not shaving.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 12:50:00 AM »
Quote
Good question. Maybe simpler just to let the seating die do the work...
Quote
The FCD adjusted to Lee's specs will swage the bullet to .355. That's fine if it's a FMJ. If you're loading plated, or lead, not so much. Buy yourself a Lee taper crimp die. It won't mess with the bullet sizing.


The FCD doesn't swage the Berry .356 diameter bullets to .355:  multiple tests done with a good number of different Berry 147gr,124gr, 115gr bullets.  We used to have a Berry rep. here on the forum and sample bullet boxes were offered
Bullets with a larger diameter,  I believe it will swage them.  I don't use lead or coated lead bullets.

With jacketted or plated .355 and .356 bullets the FCD "adjusted properly" won't harm the bullet.*

I agree that the LEE Seating die or a dedicated LEE taper crimp die should be used for the primary taper crimp.  The seating die  works fine when adjusted properly.

NOT THAT THIS MATTERS, but:  Anal retentive loaders can find a use for the FCD.  When a jacketted bullet is not seated "deep enough" to suit the reloader it gets "reseated".  With a proper taper crimp reseating the bullet "deeper" takes a pull hard enough to "compress the case" a couple of thousandths or more.  Measure the new length and it's a little short.  Wait a while and it may "grow" back a little. :o  A pass through the FCD works now.
Ripley's B.I.O.N. O0

Running it through the properly set up FCD will bring it back to full length without effecting the TC. :o  and no,  it doesn't swage the .355/.356 jacketted or plated bullets.  It does nudge the expanded case below the bullet back to size and length. 

   




« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 12:54:45 AM by 1SOW »

Offline snakeye

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 01:11:39 AM »
I have just started reloading with a Turret Press, which is WAY more convenient than the single stage.

After some thought, I have added the Factory Crimp Die to the turret and backed off on the bullet seating die.

I have noticed, however, that I am accumulating brass shavings after crimping.

This is really only a problem with PPU brass, and sometimes with S&B brass, which require steady pressure going in and out, and especially with the PPU leave a bright brass band (not the musical kind) from the case mouth about 1/8" down. I backed off the suggested setting but am still getting this effect on PPU and sometimes on S&B. Again, not happening with any other headstamp.

I have fired a few, with no apparent issues (that may be down the road however).

Is PPU thicker-cased than other brass?

If this were consistently happening with all brass I would suspect the die was defective...

I should add I have only been loading 147 gr. Speer Gold Dots and RMR 147 gr. plated. I have not tried this set-up with 124 gr., which is what I previously loaded.

Have you ever pulled one of those rounds apart and looked at the bullet? You may be crimping too much. You only need to adjust crimp just enough to see a real slight ring in the bullet then do a press check on the round to check for set back.

Set the die up by backing the knob out out so it doesn't crimp, then put the seated round in the press and raise the round up in to the die, then adjust the knob just until it touches the round, the turn it in 1/4 turn then pull the bullet and check for the faint ring in the bullet. repeat the 1/4 turn until you get the faint line. I think this will help you with this problem

Offline snakeye

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 01:25:52 AM »
The FCD doesn't swage the Berry .356 diameter bullets to .355:  multiple tests done with a good number of different Berry 147gr,124gr, 115gr bullets.  We used to have a Berry rep. here on the forum and sample bullet boxes were offered
Bullets with a larger diameter,  I believe it will swage them.  I don't use lead or coated lead bullets.

With jacketted or plated .355 and .356 bullets the FCD "adjusted properly" won't harm the bullet.*

Running it through the properly set up FCD will bring it back to full length without effecting the TC. :o  and no,  it doesn't swage the .355/.356 jacketted or plated bullets.  It does nudge the expanded case below the bullet back to size and length. 
.

I agree 100% the FCD does not swage bullets just like 1SOW says, it resizes the case after crimping, that is the other feature of this die


Offline Wobbly

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 03:50:09 AM »
I agree 100% the FCD does not swage bullets just like 1SOW says, it resizes the case after crimping, that is the other feature of this die.


The early versions of the FCD did swage all bullets, and they would take over-sized lead bullets down to jacketed bullet sizes. Newer versions have apparently fixed this oversight.

Lots of people use the FCD and love it. To each his own. I fall in with the crowd that consider the FCD a solution looking for a problem to solve. The standard $14 Lee Taper Crimp Die does everything I need without touching the bullet. Once set, you're good for a year.

 ;)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:59:04 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline noway

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Re: Lee FCD leaving brass shavings
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 06:37:10 AM »
As usual lots of excellent advice here!  :)

I'm going to step back to just the bullet seating die for now, measure cartridge dimensions and check the chrony.


I have to say this forum is the best thing since sliced bread for reloading.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 07:51:38 AM by noway »

 

anything