Author Topic: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor  (Read 906 times)

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Offline Mudulus

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Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« on: February 14, 2018, 03:15:19 PM »
Hi guys... so I bought the scorpion 2-12-18, first thing I knew I wanted done, was the safety selector replaced or deleted. I got online and found the diagrams, got my tools out and, so far I’ve twisted two 1.5mm Allen keys in half... it also has the welded trigger housing.

I need some help here guys, I don’t want to destroy anything else.

Also, is the attachment for the fake can, removable? The aground unscrews by hand but the disc/adapter doesn’t budge...

Offline mountainrider

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 07:08:52 PM »


It's apparent that CZ really believes in thread locking goo!

I heated this allen wrench with a soldering iron until it glowed... hoping the heat would soften the bond.

I gave up and ordered a safety delete from HBI. It comes with 2 new screws. I intend to dremel the OEM right side lever in half and turn the screw with vice grips.  This was advice given to me by another forum member who also ran into this sticky problem.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:10:37 PM by mountainrider »
Although I do own a P238, I don't really have a Signature.

Offline Mudulus

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 10:40:00 PM »
That’s an excellent idea!! Thanks!!

Offline romukom

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 11:20:28 PM »
Heat is your friend.
See here
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=80718.0

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk


Offline DanT

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 12:11:42 PM »
If you use the Dremel cutting wheel, place a heavy layer of tape (duct or electricians) under and around the area of the safety.  You will likely slip at least once with the Dremel, and you want to gouge tape, not your EVO.

I cut one off by creating a slot across the top, then used a wide screw driver blade to twist and "crack open" the safety.  The set screw extends on either side of the bolt inside.  It is then easy to use vice grips to break the set screw free and twist it back out.



It was a very sad thing to do.  However, I was very impressed with how tout this HBI long AK safety was built.

- DanT, Phoenix, AZ.

Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 04:29:51 PM »
Heat would be your best bet if you dont want to destroy the levers. Pretty sure glass reinforced poly is good to like 700 degrees so a heat gun or hair dryer at 200-400 should be fine.

You could also take a lighter to the wrench and get it glowing hot or just pickup a wera or wiha carbide allen wrench or carbide tipped driver bit . anything super fine like that regular steel is just going to strip or bend.. SOMETIMES penetrating fluid eats away threadlocker which is another option to try.
CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG

Offline 3guneric

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 05:11:01 AM »
Dan T:  In your pic you cut a slot in the mini AK switch.  Since that is an aftermarket upgrade does that not mean that the OEM safety had already been removed?  How did the added AK style get locked on so tight?  Just wondering.

Offline Buckshot Barry

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 06:09:59 AM »
Mudulus, welcome to the forum

Just curious as to what year your Scorpion is. The 2 digit year is marked on the bolt.

Offline DanT

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 10:38:19 AM »
Dan T:  In your pic you cut a slot in the mini AK switch.  Since that is an aftermarket upgrade does that not mean that the OEM safety had already been removed?  How did the added AK style get locked on so tight?  Just wondering.

It was a similar problem to the original question.  Loctite was used and it was too aggressive.  The set screw seems like rather soft metal, so it stripped before it could be broken loose.  I searched the internet for wisdom on this issue.  I tried using epoxy to glue the wrench in the set screw hole and that failed. 

I have since read about using the sharp edges of a Torx wrench (Torx has a "star" like head) taped into the hole so that the sharp edges dig in and provide additional grip. I bought a set starting with a T2 size because the hole is so tiny.  It appears I went over board since it looks like a T6 is about the right size (T7?). 

A Torx wrench is much sturdier than an Allen wrench.

I did not want to try heat on someone else's gun.

- DanT  Phoenix, AZ

Offline mountainrider

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 11:26:48 AM »
DanT was my advisor in removal technique. If you haven't checked out his FCG shimming thread; http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=86290.,

I was actually relieved to learn he had encountered other seized set screws; despite it looking likely I would end up taking a high rpm cutting tool to my lower. But I believe in his conclusion, so I ordered the safety delete from HBI. It comes with 2 set screws. These will be here tomorrow.

Once I'm in possession of spares, I'll heat a torx bit before attempting to break that stubborn little @#*!'er loose. If it rounds off, I'll apply the cutoff wheel and vice grips. I'll report back to this thread on the results. However I assure you, I will not be using loctite (red or blue) in the reassembly process.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 02:27:53 PM by mountainrider, Reason: clarity »
Although I do own a P238, I don't really have a Signature.

Offline Asylum9

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 07:15:50 PM »
Would putting the entire assembly in an oven or freezer have any effect on lock tactile? Before it warps or damages anything obviously.
ApIII%

Offline mountainrider

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 12:22:12 PM »
The right side safety has to be removed from the lower before the trigger pack can be extracted. That's where the 1.5mm trouble maker resides. I'm not a materials expert and do not know the heat tolerance of fiber reinforced plastic parts. SouthernScorps seems a credible sort and is likely correct about 700 degrees, but...

I wouldn't have any problem sticking someone else' scorpion lower in my oven to test that theory. Putting my polymer lower in my oven aint happening till someone else proves it safe.

To me, torching the wrench seems least risky path. I reason that localizing the heat into the thread locked screw's minuscule head is the least risky option to loosen the stuff. Obviously you'd want to switch to a different (not hot) 1.5 allen key after removing the hot one and before applying any excess torque.

Obvious too, a higher spec allen would take the torque load better than the Kobalt item I show mangled in the second post of this thread. To verify this theory, I'll try to chase down a snap-on truck and acquire one before hammering my MAC torx bit into the fastener.

BTW, I have correctly sized extractors but don't think they would take the load without snapping off and making things even worse.
Although I do own a P238, I don't really have a Signature.

Offline mountainrider

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2018, 05:03:20 PM »
It's out! The more I tried, the more determined I became to save the lever. I know it was ridiculous and I know I should have dremeled it off and been done with it. Stupid is as stubborn does.

I could bore people to death with every detail of every (many) attempt but that would not result in a concrete explanation as to why the gunsmiths hex key finally broke it loose.

Heat was applied. t6 torx wrenches were mangled. allen bits bit the dust. I even ordered a WERA driver. I'm still waiting on delivery, but...

Thinkig WTH...I took the lower with me on an errand to the LGS and told the smith what I had attempted. He said let me see that thing, disappeared downstairs for a few minutes and returned with the right side safety in one hand and the set screw, wrench and lower in the other. He said it was tight but twisted until it broke loose.

The tip of the wrench' short arm is twisted a little. I have it. He gave it to me. Every one I had tried wound up much more mutilated.

Did the repeated heatings have a cumulative effect? Maybe. I left the pic huge so that you could judge for yourself.

SCROLL RIGHT to see the screw and thread lock remains.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 05:08:42 PM by mountainrider »
Although I do own a P238, I don't really have a Signature.

Offline mountainrider

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Re: Cz noob having problems... Evo carbine faux suppressor
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 11:27:20 AM »
For anyone reading this thread for help in dealing with their own seized up set screw;

This 2" long shafted 1.5 driver is a precision fit for the fastener in question. It's snug against every angle and side of the hex head screw; far superior to any others I tried (Yet to receive the WERA). The long shaft allows full insertion into the hex head. Shorter bits in my collection have a shoulder that prevents this. There are likely many other resources for this style and quality but here is an amazon link to the option I used https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076V6887R/



I easily turned out the left side safety screw with this bit inserted into a ratchet handle screw driver. It had twisted my 1st Lowes Kobalt bit just as the right side did.

The moral seems to be that good metallurgy and fit may keep you throwing a fit.
Although I do own a P238, I don't really have a Signature.