Author Topic: Bump to open???  (Read 2046 times)

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Offline Stmark73

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Bump to open???
« on: February 27, 2018, 12:13:29 AM »
Hi to everybody,
This would be my first post/question in this forum besides questions at the buy/sell/trade area. Would like some insights from the people in this forum regarding mag pouch placement for the magazine on "Load and Make Ready".
The question is, in production/carry optics division, will i get bumped to open if i put a mag pouch/magnet in front of my belt like the open gun guys do? It will only be used for load and make ready purpose only. Other mag pouches behind hip bone.
Thank you for your input.

Offline tdogg

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 01:14:17 AM »
I'm not sure how the rule is interpreted but it is in section 5.2.4 here:  https://uspsa.org/viewer/Feb_2014_Handgun_Rules.pdf

That said, I wouldn't waste a mag pouch carrying a load and make ready magazine.  If you already have the mag pouches, then position them in a legal position and pull your load and make ready mag from the farthest rear position.  Or load them all and keep your load and make ready mag from a pocket (I put mine in a back pocket).

Why do you want to put a mag there?

Cheers,
Toby

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 05:00:20 PM »
My reason for the placement is ease of reach and when carrying my range, bag placing the load and make ready mag on the farthest point on the belt gets the mag snagged and sometimes falls out of the regular pouch. I wear jeans during a match and most of the time with mag in pocket makes it uncomfortable picking up brass and setting up poppers.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 10:12:03 PM »
Where,'s your range bag?  Just pull the mag out when you're "next" up to shoot.  You're normally not taping or picking up brass, etc at that time.
 Is this a fifth mag?

Offline IronicTwitch

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 10:13:45 PM »
I'd suggest keeping all mag pouches behind your hip bone.  As a RO I'd be more likely to bump you to Open easily. Not worth the risk.  Instead, suggest you don't carry mags in your pouches until right before it's your turn to shoot (maybe one mag just to balance your belt with your gun).

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 01:17:31 AM »
Yes,it is the 5th mag pouch. The reason why the mag gets always snagged when moving from stage to stage. I always carry my load and make ready mag in between stage after it is loaded to capacity.
Might as well do it the traditional way.
For argument's sake, why would a person be bumped to open just because of the presence of a mag holding device while it is not used during the COF. Is it not the same as retrieving a magazine from the front pocket, that is past the hip bone(just an example), during the load and make ready command before the start of COF.
As per rule 5.2.4, the placement of any mag retention device anywhere in between the hip bone is permissible as long as IT IS NOT USED AFTER THE START OF THE COF. I hope I understand it correctly.

Offline frgood

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 09:18:25 AM »
 I place my 'Make Ready' magazine pouch in the small of my back.  At command, I simply reach behind me, grab the magazine, and perform a load with the same gesture as a runtime reload.

The pouch is completely out of the way for the entire day.  It eliminate the magnet, any questions, and provides a nice sweeping gesture to help 'get into the mindset'.
It all sounded a lot funnier in my head.

Offline RocketRyan

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 11:43:25 AM »
I recently had an NROI class with Troy McManus and the question was asked for a Carry Optics shooter. Yes you can have a magnet on your belt, but Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means. You would be bumped to Open.

I have one on my belt for limited, but make sure not to use it for Prod/CO. If you only shoot those two divisions I would remove it so there is no chance to screw up your match.

Offline IronicTwitch

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 04:42:46 PM »
I think the message is it's not worth the risk of making a mental mistake and getting bumped to Open.  As a RO, I'd be watching for you to do that if I saw your belt set up that way.  Maybe not an issue at a local match esp if you're a new shooter, but definitely a Level 2 match if you're a USPSA member.  Just the rules we all play with.  I wouldn't get into a practice of having it there when it seems there's other options.

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 12:17:15 AM »
For the RO'S, upon seeing a participant with a magnet/pouch in front of the belt (Production/Carry Optics), would you automatically bump that person to Open? Or wait for that person to have a brain fart and use the magnet/pouch during the COF? In which most likely very seldom, if not, would happen because it would only be used for the make ready mag.

I know rules are rules but  there is also rule 5.2.4, that states that you can access your make mag anywhere in between the hip bones as long as you don't access it during the COF. Unless the Load And Make Ready command is part of the COF.

The big real estate in front of the belt in between the magazine pouches and holster is there, why not make good use of it? much easier to access the make ready mag. it frees up a magazine pouch for a barney/extra mag that can be used during the duration of the COF.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 04:57:10 PM »
I believe you're correct about the rules allowing  you to carry the "Make Ready" mag anywhere.  I also believe it will eventually cause you to have to present the rules  (you can buy a small rule book....I have one) and maybe have to elevate that to the match director..
  What most are saying here is why bother.
I've had to convince "local" ROs that's it's proper procedure in Production to lower the hammer manually on a CZ DA/SA safety pistol. ::)

  You could put the make ready/5th mag on the strong side behind the holster,  and draw that mag on the make ready.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 05:01:57 PM by 1SOW »

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 01:21:32 AM »
I know it's breaking the norm and would be questioned for being different.  We're all following the rules, most follow the majority and some explore.

For now, I'll try risking being criticized. As 1sow suggested, carry a uspsa handbook and be ready to point out the rule where it state that it is legal.

Thinking out of the box most of the time has its downside.

Offline IronicTwitch

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 10:19:24 AM »
For the RO'S, upon seeing a participant with a magnet/pouch in front of the belt (Production/Carry Optics), would you automatically bump that person to Open? Or wait for that person to have a brain fart and use the magnet/pouch during the COF? In which most likely very seldom, if not, would happen because it would only be used for the make ready mag.

I know rules are rules but  there is also rule 5.2.4, that states that you can access your make mag anywhere in between the hip bones as long as you don't access it during the COF. Unless the Load And Make Ready command is part of the COF.

The big real estate in front of the belt in between the magazine pouches and holster is there, why not make good use of it? much easier to access the make ready mag. it frees up a magazine pouch for a barney/extra mag that can be used during the duration of the COF.

I'd be waiting for you to make a mental error and use it.  That includes Unload and Show clear, if you stow that mag in that front pouch before the RO gives the Range is Clear command it's still technically during the COF.  Depending on the RO, they could be real rule nazis...

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 01:08:22 AM »
That's a good point with regards to stowing the mag on the magnet before the "Range is clear" command.

Offline Stmark73

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Re: Bump to open???
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 01:23:13 AM »
As for the unload  and show clear, I always hold on to my mag and pick up the dropped mags that was used during the COF until I get to the loading table. I've lost a few mags when I first started because I would repouch and/or pocketed the last mag and wuold lose count of how many mags were droped.