Author Topic: Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc  (Read 7491 times)

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KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2005, 01:30:12 PM »
Interesting , its sounds like a fun Glock to shoot.

TY44934

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2005, 07:45:59 AM »
Walt wrote: "Although I'll say that most often, its the singer, not the song, that makes the difference. (The shooter, not the gun...)"

Agreed.

Q:At the last World Pistol Championships held in South Africa, guess what gun won the Production division?

A.: A Glock 17 fielded by a Glock employee, Dave Sevigny.

Q. What guns finished in the next 5 places?

A:  CZs or CZ clones; all in 9mm & nearly stock configuration. All had STEEL frames, not alloy or polymer like the CZ100 or Tanfoglio polymer frame.  

I said "often"  - not "always."

I like CZs  - but its with the experience of having compared them to the other guns out there. With my Glock team, I have won 3 out of 4 Glock competitions (GSSF) we entered in the Team event for GSSF's amatuer civilian division & helped set a new, all time low team score (www.gssfonline.com). I know Glocks & can shoot them; given a choice, I still prefer a steel frame for competition; one like the 85 Combat or SP-01.  Regards,

D.C. Johnson
Team Shooters Paradise GSSF I
www.shootersparadise.com

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2005, 07:50:56 AM »
D.C Johnson:
  Congradulations,  I may have seen photos of you in various publications and in the IDPA Tactical Journal.
  Keep shooting well!

CZ57

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2005, 12:36:01 AM »
What I'm missing I guess would be why anyone would shoot a pistol that weighs 42 ounces against a timer, and then carry a 27 ounce pistol. If I did need the assistance of a timer, I would be using my carry gun when timing, not something that gives me a 15 ounce recoil advantage that I won't be carrying. I consider that a tactical error, and very unsound logic. A 42 ounce 9mm has but one place and that is competition/sport shooting and while it may be usefull as a training pistol for a new shooter, it hardly applies in my case. Since I can put 10 rounds in the head of a silhouette target in under 5 seconds from my P-01 at 21 feet, on a good day I can do it from 50'. This is not even a really relevant issue. Now, if that 42 ounce SP-01 was chambered in 10mm, might make more since, but not for a carry gun.

We are talking about carry guns. Smith has it right with the scandium 1911 and it is not out of the realm of practicality pricewise. The DW's will cost more and are not even on the market, or have a lighter weight carry option. Kind of like the philosophy of the 97 B in .45 ACP. Great for the range maybe, but who's gonna carry it all day.

If the Taurus 1911 proves to be a sound combat 1911, and they decide to bring it out in a titanium frame model, CZ might as well think about going to the full house custom market if they don't see the logic of a competitively priced 1911.

Like I said, I would have bought an SP-01 if it would have had the frame I thought it was going to have; A forged alloy frame like the P-01 that would have kept it at the weight, or less than the 75 B. It would have put in the same realm with other manufacturers products in the Tactical pistol market, whereas the SP-01 is now pigeonholed into a market where there is very little demand and in IDPA the Glock 34&35 and Springfield XD Tactical, have a distinct advantage in the service pistol category and are much more likely to be seen in a holster as a carry pistol. The 75 B or the Browning Hi-Power lend all the weight anyone should ever need in controlling the hottest of 9 X 19mm loads, even if using supersonic 147 gr. JHPs.

Now for the Update. I sold the XD Tactical I bought recently. Trigger reach was too short for my long/large hands. Outside of that, I still believe that it is the best polymer framed pistol available in 9mm, or .40 S&W, Now the P-01 is gone, but to my older brother who was formerly using a Kel-Tec in .40 S&W that had about a 15 pound or greater DAO trigger. Took me a couple of years, but I think he now understands the shortcomings of a pistol like this for an actual shooting scenario. My P-01 has been replaced by a Ruger SP-101 in .357 Magnum carried in a DeSantis inside/outside waistband holster and as we speak, it is getting a custom trigger job by yours truly. Next up: the Ruger P-345!;)

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2005, 03:46:58 AM »
You will be very happy with the Ruger P345.  The trigger is superb right out of the factory.   I love mine.

CZ57

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2005, 06:38:22 PM »
Well, I'm really in it now! We went to the range yesterday and the more I shoot that pistol the better it becomes. Fired 230 gr. UMC hardball while I'm waiting for the component bullets to come in, jacketed and hard cast, that I will be loading. We also fired some reloads that my partner bought from a guy he works with who was selling them at a gunshow. They were Remington 185 gr. JHPs loaded over Titegroup. Not exactly what I would load them with but hey we were in a bind for ammo and shot 100 of them along with the 100 rounds of UMC. The TiteGroup loads weren't much cleaner than W-231 has been for me. For you guys that find either clean, all I can say is there is cleaner. There will be some threads soon in reloading where we'll talk about newer and much cleaner powders. BTW, I suspect that whitebox in .45 ACP is loaded with W-231. I don't know what Remington uses in the UMC, but it is cleaner and Remington premium ammo leaves the cleanest empty brass I have seen and I also have Win., S&B, Fiocchi, Federal and PMC once fired cases.

Ya'll excuse me, it is pretty rare that I shoot factory ammo, so I thought I would pass that on to you guys that don't handload and have an interest in finding the cleanest burning factory ammo you can and a good portion of my Winchester brass comes from Silvertip loads as well as other premium stuff. Not just the Whitebox.

Because it is my firm belief that kinetic energy is part of the equation for effectiveness, I will load Remington 185 gr. JHPs to +P velocity for my defense loads and in my partners 1911 Sc, or if I buy a P-345, I will load to 1100 FPS minimum for this purpose. That is what the Remington factory +P actually achieves from 4.25" barrelled Rugers. You noticed I said If I buy. Right now I don't see any competition for S&W. Taurus will be less expensive, but will it be as reliable? They don't have Scandium, but I'm betting they will have Titanium. So, we shall see. The Taurus also has the excellent Heinie sights and most of the custom features of the S&W 1911's. If this gun works, it may turn out to be the best seller on the market at around $500

The last 1911 I owned was a Colt Government model in 1983. None of them until now have floated my boat except the Kimber and it didn't take long for their prices to go on a steady increase. Now the Series II pistols are giving them grief. The scandium frame and 27.5 ounce weight of the commander sized 1911Sc, had me a little skeptical until I shot it. Recoil is very manageable and the Novak sights make this gun immenently shootable. When the cast SWC's come in and I load some up, I am going to be shocked if this gun won't shoot cloverleaf 5 shot groups at 50' from a rest. I am also going to be using a new and slightly different ball powder called Ramshot True Blue and will give a report on the load in the next couple of weeks in the reloading section.

In my oppinion, S&W has the best thing going in a 1911 and it will be hard for me to go to the Ruger now that we have fired about 475 rounds through the Sc,with 1 failure to feed before the 150 round mark that I am positive was ammo related. It felt like the cartridge previous to it was undercharged. Not a sign of a hiccup since and when we start feeding this little jewel handloads, FORGETABOUTIT!
;)

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2005, 06:40:22 PM »
Everyone I know who has ever fired a Ruger KP345 has purchased one.  I love the gun so much,  I will purchase a second.

CZ57

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2005, 06:49:22 PM »
KP III, I may have to. I believe it is as good as any polymer frame .45 on the market. Before I buy a 1911, I will probably wait and see if my presumption is accurate about Taurus offering a Titanium frame model.;)

By the way, I see you are now a moderator. Congratulations!;)

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2005, 07:09:23 PM »
Thank you for the congradulations Kevin,  I appreciate it.
Also,  if you like the .45ACP, please also try the Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact 45.  Its a superb gun for the money, its not terribly expensive, but highly reliable and exceedingly accurate for the size and the trigger is a joy.




CZ57

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2005, 08:51:12 PM »
Picked up the Blue P-345 PR today and I like it immensely. Now if I get the S&W 1911 or Taurus 1911 Titanium (I hope), I can hold out for a 10mm!;)

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2005, 08:58:02 PM »
Congradulations Kevin,  I think you will enjoy it alot.  Also,  did you noticy the picatinny rail.  Put a nice illuminating device on it for tactical applications if you so desire.  I will have one with a light and one without.   Enjoy.

CZ57

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2005, 07:08:56 PM »
Need to update, because I got a spec sheet from CZ today on the DW 1911. This pistol has more custom features than any production 1911 I have ever seen and it is only slightly higher in price than the S&W equivelants. MSRP for the full size is $1079 and the Bobtail is $1169 with Novak Tritiums and 20 LPI checkering on the front strap.Both models are available in 10mm and I'm sure there will be one with my name on it.

CZ is to be commended. I also read that during the interim period that the pistol was unavailable, DW/CZ replaced all of the tools and fixtures for the CNC machines, which could have had an affect on some of the reliability issues DW was having just before CZ acquired them, and of course this will enhance revolver production quality as well. In fact, they are claiming that the revolvers will be the highest quality of any DW products of the past and that is indeed, great news!;)

KingPolymer-III

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Shooting the S&W 1911 Sc
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2005, 07:14:32 PM »
Sounds like an exceptional gun with an exceptional price as well, but I guess one has to pay for quality. :)