Author Topic: need help 223 ammo  (Read 239 times)

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Offline arthurstearl

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need help 223 ammo
« on: July 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM »
Ok if I shoot $20 ammo my gun shoots lights out at any yardage, When I shoot cheap $7,$8 bucks for 20 I get shot gun patterns so would the 15 dollar ammo shoot better, should has any one tried any of the Winchester or Rem mid grade ammo thanks 1,9 twist carbine

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 01:42:32 PM »
With a 1 turn in 9" barrel I'd think 62 to 65 grain bullets would be about as heavy as it would shoot, accurately.  Some people report shooting good groups with the heavier match bullets with those barrels but most .223's and 5.56X45's sold these days have either a 1 turn 7" or 1 turn in 8" barrel on them, to better stabilize the heavier bullets.

A 1 turn in 9" barrel should shoot 55 grain bullets just fine.  I've not shot lighter bullets than 55 grain in any of mine so I can't say much from any personal experiences.

Some rifles are just "funny" about what they shoot well.  I have an M1A that is a pretty mediocre shooter unless I load a certain bullet/powder combination for it that is not recommended for M1A's.  I had a shooting/hunting buddy many years ago with a Win. M70 that only shot one load well.  Federal/Remington/Winchester .30-06 ammo from 110 to 220 grains gave him 3 to 4" three shot groups at 100 yds.  Load up some brass with IMR4350 powder and a Sierra 180 grain flat based spitzer bullet and the groups turned into 2 bullets tearing one hole and the third bullet leaving just enough paper between it and the first two that you couldn't call it a one hole group.  A nickel would cover it, a dime almost would cover it.  "Funny" rifles, sometimes, in what shoots well or not.

If I were you I'd start reloading.  Expensive ammo may shoot well, but you can load it way cheaper than you can buy it.

I think I mentioned this one time before, here on the forum.  My nephew has a heavy barreled (24" bull barrel) AR15 built with good stuff (receiver/bolt/barrel/free float tube, etc.)  When we went to the range to sight it in he bought Remington and either Federal or Winchester ammo in several different bullet weights/styles.  It has a 1 turn in 7" barrel for those heavy match bullets I'm going to load, someday.  We sighted in at 25 yds. and walked over to the 100 yd. range.  We finished sighting it in for POA/POI at 100 yds. (it has a BDC scope on it so it needed to be on at 100 yds.)  The he shot some groups with the rest of his factory ammo and I gave him some of my reloads to shoot as well (Hornady 55 grain FMJ with either IMR4198 or BLC2 powder in mixed cases).  I was shooting one of my rifles.  When he got done I asked him what he got his best groups with at 100 yds.  His reply, "That stuff you gave me."

When you reload you can build something that shoots good in your rifle instead of searching for something off the shelf - that you might not be able to find just anytime you want to buy a few boxes to head to the range.

Good luck with it.  A rifle you can't shoot good groups with isn't much fun.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline newageroman

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 05:34:13 PM »
Keep in mind that factory ammo is usually close to or over what a max charge of a reloading round. Most reloaders (me included) load for accuracy not absolute max velocity. Its not only more accurate, but easier on the gun/barrel too.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 08:23:21 PM »
• In my experience the carbine length barrels are just as accurate as a 20" barrel for any reasonable distance. And you already proved your gun can shoot good, so let's ignore barrel length.

• Correct bullet weight range to work with the twist rate is important, but it's a range of weights and not a fixed number.

• After that, all that's left is powder and bullet quality. I guess if you pay for Hornady ammo you know you're getting a Hornady bullet... but that's about it. As a buyer, that's about as much control as you can exert on the entire situation.


If accuracy is important to you for any reason, then you should really consider reloading your own ammo. At $8/20 you're paying 40 cents per, for really worthless ammo. You can probably load the best ammo you ever shot for 20 cents per.

Factory ammo is really cheap this week, and becasue of that lots of people are selling their reloading equipment right now. This is a great time to pick up a used outfit at half-price. And the great thing about used equipment is that a lot of small bits and accessories get thrown in with the deal. The answer to the question "Who makes the best ammo in the world ?" is You Do !!

Read this.... http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=58939.0


Everyone here got into reloading for those exact same reasons... We couldn't find affordable accurate ammo.

 ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 07:58:05 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 11:16:35 PM »
If accuracy is important to you for any reason, then you should really consider reloading your own ammo. At $8/20 you're paying 40 cents per, for really worthless ammo.

Just to add to this, you could load a premium bullet (69 grain Sierra Matchking), a premium powder (Varget), and a premium primer (CCI 41) for UNDER $8.00/20 paying full blown retail for components.  This load duplicates the Federal Gold Medal Match load, which typically retails for around $20.00/box.  Buying in bulk or on sale will net significantly larger cost savings with a much larger accuracy potential.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 08:11:23 AM »
Just looking on CraigsList in Atlanta this AM....

RCBS Rock Chucker (the older American made version in very good condition), complete with powder measure $85 [post id: 6630969933]

Lyman 223 Rem die set $20 (looks new and unused to me) [post id: 6606763113]


That's 2 of the best pieces of reloading equipment ever made !

Let's say you shoot 20 rounds a week. All this would be completely paid off in 11 weeks, versus buying junk ammo at Walmart.
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 08:24:56 AM »
Well, poopy breeches ! My arch nemesis, Painter, must have been busy all night !

I was cruising through CraigsList and come upon a new, unused Dillon 1050 with case feeder for $2900. And that comes with 3 powder measures, 3 caliber change kits, and more.

post id: 6611021136 in Athens, GA

I'm sorry I ever looked now.

 :P
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline newageroman

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 11:24:22 AM »
I'm seeing a lot og guys selling their 1050s to step up to the new Mark 4 reloading stations. They look awesome, but cost $$$.

If you start rolling your own you will cringe at the accuracy and prices of factory. Join us and enter the next level!

Offline Grendel

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »
Okay folks, let's try answering the OP's actual question, instead of trying to persuade him to spend $$$ on joining the Great Unwashed  er...I mean reloaders.
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 05:06:28 PM »
I have prostrated myself toward Prague, anointed my forehead with official CZ packing grease, and have reverently mumbled 10 times all the CZ model numbers, while fingering a MecGar magazine.

In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline Grendel

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 08:42:04 PM »
I have prostrated myself toward Prague, anointed my forehead with official CZ packing grease, and have reverently mumbled 10 times all the CZ model numbers, while fingering a MecGar magazine.

Arise, my Apprentice Administrator, learn that not everything is to be found in the Holy Book of Dillon; and go forth and guide the others in their journey to enlightenment in the way of the Double TapTM and its many disciplines.
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Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 12:45:57 AM »
Ok if I shoot $20 ammo my gun shoots lights out at any yardage,

You might want to define that so we know what you're hoping for.

Anyway, when I bought my AR, I bought a box of 150 Federal American Eagle for about $45.  This:



I can't tell you the exact group sizes it produced, but I was shooting with an unmagnified red dot (Aimpoint Pro), and the groups were small enough at 100 yards that the dot covered the group and the center colored portion of the target, which I think was somewhere around 6 inches in diameter, so less than 6 inches?  And I'm not a great shot, so I'm going to assume 5 inches of that was me.

At the end of the day, you can bet the premium match ammo is better than mid-grade, and mid-grade is better than cheap-o, but that is only MOST of the time.  There may be cheap ammo that shoots like lasers from your rifle, and their be match ammo that shoots like junk.  So there's really no "Will this ammo shoot acceptably (and undefined) small groups in my rifle?"  It's one of those questions only you can answer through trial and error.

Or maybe the answer is simply "Maybe?"  ;)

Let us know how it turns out.

Offline Taz575

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Re: need help 223 ammo
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 09:48:12 PM »
Cheap 223 ammo tends to group pretty bad for me in my 527 223 Lux and my Savage 10 223; 1.5-2" 5 shot groups.  Handloads in the savage around around 1/2" w/o tuning that load to the rifle yet.

For my CZ 527 Lux,  I pillar bedded/JB Kwik Weld bedded the front of the rifle and cut a slightly longer pillar (ie roll pin!) for the rear of the rifle and it made a Huge difference in groups.  Now I need to go back and try out some of the ammo that it didn't seem to like before.  Many CZ 527 seem to really benefit from a bedding/pillar job.  You can use roll pins for pillars or lamp nipple tube.  I used lamp tube cut a hair or two taller than the wood for the front (drilled the hole in the stock larger first) and bedded it with JB Kwik Weld and then cut a slightly longer rear roll pin.  This way is sits on the pillars and not the wood and the recoil lug and chamber of the barrel are supported better and more consistently. 

 

anything