The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Hunting => Topic started by: armoredman on March 16, 2016, 11:47:27 PM
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I want to try hunting coyote with the Scorpion. I can get good accuracy out to 100 yards, and the round, properly loaded, should have enough oomph out of that 7.5 inch barrel. The XTP load gives 1200 FPS with a 124 gr bullet.
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You'll have to be good at hiding and calling.
No reason why a 9MM hollow point shouldn't "do in" a coyote.
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I have a friend who is an avid coyote hunter. He tells me scent control and camo are critical. As for bringing them in closer than 100 yards he says it's doable with the young ones. After their first year they wise up. He's constantly changing up his calls. At least that's his experience with coyotes in East TN. Of course, with coyotes the challenge is the whole point of the exercise. I'm dying to go as well, but haven't had the time to dedicate.
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Coyotes are remarkably tough critters, I wouldn't take a shot over 50 yards with a 9mm carbine. I've hit 3 or 4 at 75 to 100 yards with a 125gr SJHP 357mag fired from a 20 inch barreled carbine. Every one of them ran off 200 to 300 yards and required a finishing shot when I walked up on them. All were shot through the lungs and were down and bleeding out but not dead 5 to 10 minutes after being hit.
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That's not good - I don't want them to suffer, just die.
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I think the challenge to call the Coyotes inside 50yds to get your kill shot will be worth the effort. I have a buddy that successfully hunts coyotes exclusively with a shotgun so you can get them close enough to take humanely.
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I want to try hunting coyote with the Scorpion...
You eat dog ?
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My brother has a farm about 40 miles South of Richmond, VA. He and I have been using our scoped AR's with good effect out to 100-150 yards for the past couple of years. He has a golf cart and (don't laugh) an Army surplus camo net for (he says) a Jeep. The thing is big enough to cover a Deuce-and-a-half but once we get it set-up, it provides a remarkably good blind. We have both gotten pretty good at calling them in, too. Coyotes have fairly predictable feeding patterns and are opportunistic - they won't pass-up what they think is an easy meal. Neither will I, for that matter! ;D
I can also speak from personal experience that coyotes are extremely tough critters, even when zipped by focus fire from two AR's at <100 yards. We both have switched to .308 Varmint set-ups this year. Our theory is that it shouldn't take more than one shot from either my CZ 550 or his Remington 700 PSP but, I'll be honest, nothing surprises me about this pest anymore. I've seen them hit, roll, get-up and run off after a solid hit from a 5.56mm round. We'll see if they do that after a .30 caliber?
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I've been given enough from all sides to make me reconsider my czoice of coyote killers...maybe the CZ 527M/CSR would be a better idea. :) A 125 grain soft point stepping out at 2300 FPS might do a better job.
What 5.56mm ammo were you using, if you don't mind me asking?
Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
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Various types of FMJ. We got a good deal on some Israeli-made stuff called, "Freedom USA" that was very accurate and loaded pretty hot.
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Ah...wonder if a soft point might work better. Hmm....
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We tried a few different kinds of .223 HP/SP and just weren't getting the accuracy we needed out of those 16" bbl AR's but, yeah, I think it would've made a difference.
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Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
It's a standard question I ask coyote hunters
Some don't take it well and hilarity ensues...
You're legit.
I hear hornady's vmax (223) works well on these not dogs
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Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
It's a standard question I ask coyote hunters
Some don't take it well and hilarity ensues...
You're legit.
I hear hornady's vmax (223) works well on these not dogs
I have never forgot learning this fun fact in high school US History... "Lewis & Clark's Corps of Discovery ate over 200 dogs while traveling the Lewis and Clark Trail". While Meriwether Lewis reportedly enjoyed the meat, William Clark was noted as abstaining from K9."
I have never eaten a Coyote or K9, if there is a difference...But, if coyote has the flavor of a feral or wild hog I would not hesitate to sample it.
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As another poster mentioned, yotes can be exceptionally tough animals. I have been amazed more than once in regards to the amount of damage that they can absorb and still run off.
If all I had was a 9mm, I would use it, but (my personal opinion) I strive to give the animal a quick clean kill if possible, and therefore would skip it in preference to more traditional choices, like the .223, 6mm, etc. Under 50 yards, a shotgun, properly choked, with the right load is pretty stellar too. That said, the majority of the coyotes I have shot have been far beyond 50 yards.
.223 Tikka with handloads using a 52 grain SMK.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/October07007.jpg) (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/October07007.jpg.html)
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In some places/states hunting with FMJ ammo is against the law.
Bullet placement beats velocity just about every time.
Have you tried the heavier .223 bullets?
Funny (not haha funny) that we send our soldiers and Marines out to fight armed enemy with a round that doesn't reliably put down a coyote.
I've never hunted coyotes, foxes, bobcats, etc. Just ground hogs. Head shots kill, right now. A little bit off, not so much. The .223, in the right rifle, with the right ammo and the right shooter is hard to beat as a varmint rifle.
I'll bet it's hard to get comfortable/accurate shooting out of a golf cart. Have you tried tacking the camo/cover down at an angle and moving around under it to engage the coyotes from a good sitting or prone firing position?
I read a story in Guns and Ammo many years ago. At that time one of the writers was Elmer Keith (I don't remember if he was the handgun editor or if Bob Milek had moved into that position by then.)
Elmer said that he a buddy used to try all kinds of different calibers/bullet types on the various varmints/animals they came across while out riding their horses around the country side. He say a 9MM FMJ round would not reliably put down their big western jack rabbits unless you made a good head shot. If shot through the body they would often jump/run some distance before collapsing.
They also got on a lathe and made a bunch of solid bronze bullets for a .220 Swift. I don't remember the bullet weight but those lightweight bullets had to be absolutely packing the mail when they left the muzzle. They were of course, non expanding when hitting and animal. When they shot jack rabbits in the head the rabbit died. When they shot them in the body the rabbit would pick it's hind leg up, scratch at the wound and then continue to eat awhile until it collapsed at some point. He decided from that, that even extremely high velocity alone wasn't enough without good bullet placement.
Having typed all that, coyote hunting with a pistol might be fun. Squirrel hunting with a .22 (Ruger Mk1 5.5" bull barrel) used to be a lot of fun for me.
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You'll be just fine killing clothes at 100yrds a 9mm will punch thru them with ease it's all about bullet placement like with ANY weapon that 9mm will kill a deer at that range don't let folks sway you otherwise they just don't have the experience if they say different. Just always choose the right ammo the bullet is key it needs to mushroom but don't use defense ammo there designed to under penetrate just a good lead tipped hollow point will do the job perfectly.
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Nuts nuthin, I think it sounds like fun. I'd choose an expanding type bullet for coyotes, one that shoots accurately from your gun.
I am looking forward to hunting with my Scorpion Carbine. Bunny rabbits won't stand a chance!
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I have shot a few canines with my cz 75 in 9mm all shot close 10 yards or less .using a decoy dog switch to a .40 for my carry ,and a howa .308 for serious coyote wacking ,I'v eaten horse but never tried dog
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Mack, those appear to be some extemely healthy coyotes you have there (except for the entrance/exit holes in them). ;D
If I didn't see the brushland in the background, I wouldn't hesitate to guess that those varmints could come from here out east/north (MI).
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I do most of my yote hunting at night. I use a 6.5 Grendel for the 75 to 100 yds with thermal, and a uzi carbine for anything less. At night they come in a lot closer than daytime.
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I prefer my Ruger American 30.06 for Coyote Hunting. I've also had success with my AR and my Henry .17 . I can see where hunting with the Scorpion can be great fun but , a little challenging !
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While the 9mm Skorpion is certainly capable of killing a Coyote, I'm thinking your BREN or Cz527 are more suitable to the task.
Typically, I use an accurized Ruger Mini-14 and a handloaded 52 grain CCI/Speer FB-JHP Bullet that expands nicely. Winchester 55 grain Soft Points also work nicely, if Factory Ammunition is all you can manage.
Also note that Speer makes a Boat Tailed 52 grain Bullet, which is only a Target Bullet. It will not expand, no matter how much you want it to.
I have called Coyotes in with a Tape Cassette of a wounded Rabbit call and have just hunted them from a Tree Stand near a Chicken Coup.
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I hunt in hilly brushy draws in So Iowa and most of my Yotes are taken at 20- 50 yards. My main rifle is a 16" BCM AR with a cheap RDS using Hornady 53 grain expanding points. Some will drop in their tracks and others will run. Shot placement is very hard at close range as it is snap shooting. I have brought along a shot gun with a 20" barrel but haven't had a chance to use it.
I don't see why a pistol cartridge wouldn't work at close range.
BENT
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I have a Tikka .243 which works well on "ole' Wiley Coyote''. A well placed 95 gr. Fusion will roll 'em over!
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I've been given enough from all sides to make me reconsider my czoice of coyote killers...maybe the CZ 527M/CSR would be a better idea. :) A 125 grain soft point stepping out at 2300 FPS might do a better job.
What 5.56mm ammo were you using, if you don't mind me asking?
Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
Quick science derail....
Any form of eradication has little to no effect on coyotes, and yes coyotes, dogs, and wolves are all related.
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I've been given enough from all sides to make me reconsider my czoice of coyote killers...maybe the CZ 527M/CSR would be a better idea. :) A 125 grain soft point stepping out at 2300 FPS might do a better job.
What 5.56mm ammo were you using, if you don't mind me asking?
Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
Quick science derail....
Any form of eradication has little to no effect on coyotes, and yes coyotes, dogs, and wolves are all related.
Your "science" isn't settled.
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Sorry, didn't mean to initiate any argument. That wasn't my intention. I was just trying to share some knowledge I've learned over the years. I was an avid yote hunter some time ago. Your 6.5 Grendel idea is an excellent option, you'll be able to reach out and touch them quite a ways off. Good luck.
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Sorry, didn't mean to initiate any argument. That wasn't my intention. I was just trying to share some knowledge I've learned over the years. I was an avid yote hunter some time ago. Your 6.5 Grendel idea is an excellent option, you'll be able to reach out and touch them quite a ways off. Good luck.
No argument intended here either. I've read some of those studies as well as others that draw different conclusions. My hope is that the Grendel will be a bit more "decisive" than .223, don't want to wound them or cause unnecessary suffering. Most of my shots are under 200yds without much chance for a follow up. Yotes in my area(East Tn) are under a lot of pressure and aren't visible for long. Wiley would be an understatement.
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I do most of my yote hunting at night. I use a 6.5 Grendel for the 75 to 100 yds with thermal, and a uzi carbine for anything less. At night they come in a lot closer than daytime.
These are big old Idaho song dogs.
Or they were.... 8)
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I resolved the 9mm question for myself a couple years ago on big but sick raccoon in my barn , mind you I killed hundreds of coons in my youth with a .22 from the tree tops not point blank range , unless its in self defense I will go get the 10/22 next time :)
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as far as yotes go there no such thing as to much gun , last one I shot was with 50 cal muzzle loader for bang flop , 260 rem with 120 grain ballistic tips are very effective too. I own a 204 and a 223 but have not shot yotes with them yet , I don't expect anything dramatic
from them as far as exits on coyote sized animals really unless I find that bullet that works. Tracking wounded coyotes is not something I want to do and is nearly impossible at night .
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That's not good - I don't want them to suffer, just die.
8)
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My brother hunted upland game with his rather small English setters or French Brittany (both of which he loved more than anything else), and whether he hunted in Illinois or Wisconsin, all the while he hunted upland game, coyotes were hunting his bird dogs: So, if you don't want to go through the trouble of masking human scent or setting up a blind, sitting for hours, or using camo, try hunting upland game using a smaller bird dog. I would be amazed if you did not find the coyotes hunting your bird dog and giving you the opportunity to shoot and kill dead with one shot coyotes when using no more than a 20 gauge side by side loaded with 1 ounce of # 6 or even # 7.5 bird shot. This happened time and time again year after year. It was as if the coyotes were completely unaware that my brother was even in the vicinity. As for myself, I always hunted using my 100 pound plus Chessies; I never had this problem with coyotes.
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Lazarus thread.......
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I have a friend who is an avid coyote hunter. He tells me scent control and camo are critical. As for bringing them in closer than 100 yards he says it's doable with the young ones. After their first year they wise up. He's constantly changing up his calls. At least that's his experience with coyotes in East TN. Of course, with coyotes the challenge is the whole point of the exercise. I'm dying to go as well, but haven't had the time to dedicate.
What brand does he use?
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Hiya, well it was easter this past week,so rising from the dead is the theme there too. Be well.
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Hiya, well it was easter this past week,so rising from the dead is the theme there too. Be well.
God point.
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That's not good - I don't want them to suffer, just die.
Well said, ArmoredMan! A quick kill is a humane kill.
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Here in Wa state, we called for a few years and most were within 25 yards. Out in the open country you would really need a Rifle, unless you can hit targets at 200 yards with a handgun. Good luck.
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I've been given enough from all sides to make me reconsider my czoice of coyote killers...maybe the CZ 527M/CSR would be a better idea. :) A 125 grain soft point stepping out at 2300 FPS might do a better job.
What 5.56mm ammo were you using, if you don't mind me asking?
Franz, we don't eat "dog", (coyotes aren't dogs), but we do hunt varmints and pests. Coyotes do huge damage to livestock around here, and I have friends with goat farms and cattle ranches out here. Coyotes have been known to attack and eat a calf while it's still being born.
...I'm not a hunter but think that's a wise choice armoredman. If you can use something that flies in that 2K+FPS range you'll be able to create a much more traumatic wound/ quicker kill. A rifle will allow much better shot placement too. I know these animals have to be controlled, sounds like you're wanting to be surgical about it. I think both 7.62x39 or 5.56 are ideal choices unless your shots are within 25 yards or so.
JMO
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Hope your Yotes die faster than this thread 8)
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What's the best way for scent control?