Author Topic: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?  (Read 836 times)

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Online Tyerone

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85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« on: October 21, 2017, 09:20:00 PM »
Basically, I'm looking to cajunize my 85B into hopefully a bullseye gun.  SA shot will be first priority.  I'm sure that CGW can make a standard safety version feature a supurb SA shot.  Either SAO conversion or keep DA/SA for my purpose, right?  What would steer me one one way or the other for this fun-only gun?

Offline Walt Sherrill

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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 05:00:09 PM »
Quote from: Tyerone
Basically, I'm looking to cajunize my 85B into hopefully a bullseye gun.  SA shot will be first priority.  I'm sure that CGW can make a standard safety version feature a supurb SA shot.  Either SAO conversion or keep DA/SA for my purpose, right?  What would steer me one one way or the other for this fun-only gun?

I'm surprised nobody has responded.   I've not participated here in years and have only followed what's going on in the  CZ world from a distance durng that hiatus, but have directed many folks to this site.

I have owned and shot an 85 Combat for almost 20 years and have owned a bunch of other CZs, including a well-gunsmithed 75B SA.  An 85B offers no real advantages over a 75B --  just an ambi safety and slide release.  The 85 Combat is basically the same gun without the firing pin block safety, with an adjustable rear sight added.  (The adjustable sight was added to get "import" points from the U.S. government to offset the lack of a firing pin block.)
  • If you're going to be doing Bullseye and are very serious about results, you may want to have a competent gunsmith fit your barrel for you.  I've never had that done nor felt the need, so I have no idea about costs... But suspect that Cajun Gun Works or CZ-Custom can do it, and quote a price.    (Most CZs have better accuracy potential than the person holding the gun -- that seems to be the case for me -- so whether you have the barrel fitted is up to you.)  If you do everything else and you're not happy, that may be a last resort.
  • Switching to a SA trigger won't really increase your gun's accuracy potential -- but the ability to have a trigger that's adjustable for take-up and over-travel -- possible with some CZ SA triggers (in SA guns) -- is nice.  Trigger take-up and over-travel are arguably are  more important for the gun games where you're running and gunning and fighting the clock than in Bullseye -- but they certainly can't hurt.)   Unhappily, the SA trigger can't be used in a SA/DA gun.
  • Having the larger, easier-to-use SA safety levers (which are AMBI and can work on the 85B or 85 Combat) is nice if you're playing the gun games [USPSA or IDPA, etc.], but may be less necessary for Bullseye.  (I keep planning to install these larger levers on my 85 Combat (which remains SA/DA) but my money always seems to get spent on something else.)  They are pretty expensive.  And for range use/bullseye, may be gilding the lily.
  • Some shooters also like to remove the firing pin block safety mechanism, but I know that can affect timing; I'm not expert enough to address this issue, but know that polishing the components of the firing pin block mechanism can make for a better trigger pull.
  • You can improve the SA trigger dramatically by simply installing one of the after-market hammers from Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom.  That alone changes the critical hammer/sear interface.  Just changing springs (and there are kits for that) will make a difference.
You can start with a lighter hammer spring from Wolff Springs.  (www.Gunsprings.com)  You can get kit with different weights and see what works best for you.   Or you can get the after-market hammer as a next step.  If you're happy with the result, you could be through through -- if not, you can get a spring kit from CGW or send the gun to Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom and ask that they do their magic.   (That COULD include barrel fitting, but probably won't.)   :)

Offline Joe L

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 05:39:29 PM »
On my 75B...

I removed the firing pin block and installed a spacer in the B sear cage.  I added the CGW 10x bushing.  The lock up was already excellent from the factory on mine, so mine didn't need anything but the bushing. 

Mine is SAO now.  I put in the SA trigger with two set screws and removed the disconnector.  I also have a CGW hammer and sear.  I use the rubber grips and added some Sugru to fatten up the right side of the grip a little.  I have a 17# hammer spring since I use both Kadet and 9mm slides with this frame.

I can't remember what all else, other than a Springer Precision mount for a Burris Fast Fire 3 with 3 moa dot. 

I prefer this combination to anything else for a 9mm centerfire/.22 combination.  An 85B should be every bit as good.  I have an absolutely perfect SAO CGW 97B"E" to use for .45.

The only pistol I would be interested in for a replacement would be a Tactical Sport Orange in 9mm, but I doubt I could shoot one any better than my 75B. 

Good luck with bullseye.  Best discipline there is to learn to shoot.  The gun is about 20% of the battle, in my opinion.  The rest is learning to move the trigger without moving the gun.  Every shot. 

Joe
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 05:42:55 PM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Online Tyerone

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 05:51:05 PM »
Walt,

Thanks for coming out of hiding to rescue me from my loneliness in the 85 forum!
Although it was a great shooter stock, I've sent it to the pros at CGW.  Long wait time, so may not be returned until this 85 forum sees a handful of new posts, lol.

Pro package with cgw race hammer, 10x bushing, crowning, and mounting plate for my Delta Point Pro red dot received from Santa.

Yes, Joe -- the shooter will no longer be able to blame the gun!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 08:34:41 PM by Tyerone »

Offline Joe L

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 07:31:13 PM »
Excellent!!  Looking forward to hearing how it works out for you.  I'm pretty sure you are going to really like it. 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline Grendel

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 07:43:09 PM »
Welcome back to the fold, Walt.
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus

Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 08:45:04 PM »
I was wondering how in the world this thread was completely missed, until I saw it was in the 85B forum. Very cool that Walt Sherrill would return to wake things up. Joe's path is very similar to mine. My pre-b bullseye gun and my 97B both have been converted to SAO with the flat trigger. The 97 has the fpb removed as well. I think the SAO converted trigger pull(weight&feel) is easier to duplicate between pistols, and for me the clean break that comes with a full power mainspring is ideal.

Online Tyerone

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 09:32:14 PM »
Most of my experience is with curved triggers, so I figured (at least this time) the adjustable 85C trigger from the Pro package with shortened reach was the way to go.  I was also debating use of my PCR slide hosting the red dot ala semicompact fashion as sight radius would no longer be a factor.  Then again less weight may result in more gun movement.  Bsefore I over "thunk" myself to death,  I figured it best to experiment on the 85B with a popular CGW configuration, get some stick time and learn what I might like better...

Hey!  We are fast approaching a handful of new posts within the 85 forum!  Does this mean my gun might be finished soon? lol

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 11:13:03 PM »
I've not been shooting as much in recent years as before -- our local IDPA club closed, I retired, and I've been busy doing other things like home improvements. That's mostly done, now, at least for a while.

My son (a NC State Trooper) and grandson (he's 13 but a surprisingly good shot) are starting to shoot more actively.  We were able to shoot together recently.  (My son like ARs -- he was issued one as a trooper and bought one of his own.  I haven't gone the AR route, yet, but may one of these days. 

Vision has been a problem -- I've had one cataract fixed, and the other isn't ready yet -- but I've got new glasses adjusted for shooting, so that may help.

I still like CZs, and have the 85 Combat I mentioned earlier,  a Kadet Kit, a P-07, a custom AT-84s (which is simply amazing), and a Sphinx SDP -- I'm crazy about them all.  On another forum I described the P-07 as a bargain-priced Sphinx SDP.   I like the SDP better, but the P-07 is no slouch.   I'll hope to find someone soon who doesn't like his P10C or P-09, and I'll swap him my H&K V9PSK for it.

I also have a modest collection of other weapons.  Long ago I decided that If I can't shoot them well, or if they don't perform as they should, I trade them away.   If I have them, they pretty darned good.  Of all the guns I've sold or traded away, about the only one I regret is my old CZ-40B.  (I didn't like .40 S&W back then, but have come to terms with it since.)  When the bullets don't go where they should I can't blame the guns.

The real surprise for me has been  Kel-Tec PMR-30.   That darned gun shoots like a LASER!  (And it arguably beats a CZ-52 in terms of noise and fireballs!)  Performance-wise, and using the right ammo, (Hornady Criitical Defense .22 WRM performs about as well as a good .380!  I got the PMR-30 for my wife, who wanted something she could shoot; she couldn't work the actions on most of my other guns.  She CAN hit the broad side of the barn with it, and the mag holds 30 rounds if she needs them.   :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 11:29:58 AM by Walt Sherrill »

Offline 1SOW

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Re: 85B to CGW: Why not SAO?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2018, 05:46:37 PM »
Walt,  great to hear from you again!  Glad you're getting back to the range,  especially with  family.

 

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