Author Topic: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion  (Read 1122 times)

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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 07:55:36 PM »
I started looking at SIGS after the M&P crapped out on me the second time.

All those levers/buttons on the left side and you still can't carry it cocked and locked. 

So I bought the P07 and shot it.  I made the right choice.

Look again There's no more levers and buttons on the SIG than on the CZ. There's a slide stop, a de-cocking lever and a magazine catch.
My CZ 75D PCR and 75BD and 97BD has a slide stop,a de-cocking lever and a magazine catch,
My CZ 75B Compact and full size models have a slide stop,a safety for those who like the far outdated 1911, and it has a magazine catch.
Whether you like the SIG or not there is absolutely no more complexity with it in comparison to the CZ or any other hammer fired pistol.
Oh yea you can get the 229 Legion in SA with just a safety lever for those who prefer that type of system.


Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 09:41:36 PM »
M1A4me,
Your comment "The P-07 got me on the CZ Highway" is really what I was talking about.

It does everything so well from EDC, to Range/Target, to Competition; and IMHO is a great 1st CZ. The P-07 and P-09 come with the easily changeable Omega system, allowing a choice to carry Decocked DA 1st round or Cocked and Locked SA 1st round is a big plus.

If your preference is Cocked and Locked, a P-07, P-09, P-01 Omega or 75 Full size Omega are all great choices as well as CZ's manual safety models.

I guess that's why many of us have more than one CZ!   O0

I will say the big sweeping Sig P229 decocker is a bit awkward compared to CZ's and it takes some getting used to, but the trade-off I suppose is the Sig's slide release is much easier to access quickly.

As long as you train with one platform that you're comfortable with, it probably doesn't matter either way.


« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 09:58:40 PM by Vinny »
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2018, 08:12:13 AM »
Well, my CZ's have a slide release that doubles as a way to get the slide off, when I push/pull it out of the frame.  The SIGs I've seen have a separate lever for that.  Decocker, slide release, magazine release and take down lever = 4 levers/buttons on the left side of the frame and none of them allow me to carry it cocked and locked - safely.

My CZ's have a magazine release, thumb safety and slide release on the left side of the frame = 3 buttons/levers.  And I carry them cocked and locked with the safety "ON".  Just like my 1911's.  Carried a 1911 from 1978 till I bought that darned Glock about 12 years ago.  Then it was a struggle till I went through some other brands till I got that P07.  The one time since the P07 I bought a non-CZ handgun and next thing I know I'm shipping it back for a recall/warranty work before I ever get to shoot it (that new M&P Shield EZ.)  I don't have enough fingers to count the CZ pistols I've bought in the last 5 or 6 years, but the one non-CZ I buy and here we go again (mini-rant, sorry, got carried away.)

I guess the 1911 does have the grip safety at the rear, but I don't have to do anything extra with it to get it to work after I grab the grip frame.  No, I'm not wishing my CZ's had a grip safety.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline rhart

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 08:36:10 AM »
I have a Sig 229 Legion and many CZs. The Legion, while a nice gun, sits in the safe most of the time while I shoot my CZs. I mostly shoot my S2 or S1 and then my SP01 Compact (in that order). Every once in a while I get the urge to shoot the Sig, but then it gets set aside again.
Musashi:
- In all forms of strategy, it is necessary to maintain the combat stance in everyday life and to make your everyday stance your combat stance. (situational awareness).
- You can only fight the way you practice.
- If you do not control the enemy, the enemy will control you.

Offline twowheels

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2018, 10:25:21 AM »
I've got several german built sigs (220, 228, 230, 239) and had other sigs that I let go and think a lot of them (at least the german ones) but these days they really never get shot or carried because I prefer my CZs in every way. 

Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2018, 10:38:06 AM »
My CZ's are all set up as decockers, from RAMI BD up to SP-01 Tactical. Same comfortable manual of arms that fit me like a soft leather shoe.

But after investing $1500 in the Legion 229 RX I figured I better start using it and get over the fact that it just felt a bit clunky and awkward compared to my CZ's.

So, I practiced with it for this week's Tuesday Night local match. Oddly enough, I noticed my ranking moved up a few positions after the match. Mostly 'A'  some 'C', couple of D hits, no misses or penalties.  Maybe it was a fluke; but the rounds just seemed to find the target.  YMMV   ;)     
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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2018, 03:27:46 PM »
My CZ's are all set up as decockers, from RAMI BD up to SP-01 Tactical. Same comfortable manual of arms that fit me like a soft leather shoe.

But after investing $1500 in the Legion 229 RX I figured I better start using it and get over the fact that it just felt a bit clunky and awkward compared to my CZ's.

So, I practiced with it for this week's Tuesday Night local match. Oddly enough, I noticed my ranking moved up a few positions after the match. Mostly 'A'  some 'C', couple of D hits, no misses or penalties.  Maybe it was a fluke; but the rounds just seemed to find the target.  YMMV   ;)     

My CZ's are mostly decockers with a single safety model and I find the DA first shot easy to master. I'm not knocking my CZ's in any way but the Legion really is a sweet shooter. I've always felt my CZ's were a step above everything else in the accuracy department but after spending some time with the Legion it's like "holy crow"t thing is like shooting guided mini missiles.
The Legion trigger for me is where it's at and it even doubled my speed along with accuracy.

Offline recoilguy

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 04:04:38 PM »
I started looking at SIGS after the M&P crapped out on me the second time.

All those levers/buttons on the left side and you still can't carry it cocked and locked. 

So I bought the P07 and shot it.  I made the right choice.

Look again There's no more levers and buttons on the SIG than on the CZ. There's a slide stop, a de-cocking lever and a magazine catch.
My CZ 75D PCR and 75BD and 97BD has a slide stop,a de-cocking lever and a magazine catch,
My CZ 75B Compact and full size models have a slide stop,a safety for those who like the far outdated 1911, and it has a magazine catch.
Whether you like the SIG or not there is absolutely no more complexity with it in comparison to the CZ or any other hammer fired pistol.
Oh yea you can get the 229 Legion in SA with just a safety lever for those who prefer that type of system.


yeah this is exactly my opinion on the matter. Sig.....to difficult to manipulate.....no, no its not. I am a CZ guy to the max, my nickname at my club is not recoilguy it's CZguy. I get all the CZ questions and wants to try shooting one before they buy. I compete with a CZ every week. I am a fan of CZ's in a giant way. I will not say a bad thing about a Sig however or justify my CZ purchase decision in that fashion. The  229's are expensive for some that's a good reason not to own one. But man a sweeter shooter is hard to come by. Clunky? if so that's a bummer because to me they are awesome in my hand. I will continue to compete shoot and hunt with my CZ's but I will never talk down a Sig 229. Maybe I am too easy to make happy.

RCG
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 04:06:25 PM by recoilguy »
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Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 08:40:52 PM »
Just three more things to say about the Sig P229
1. My choice of words was poor. I meant to say: a bit chunky (not clunky). A Full-Size 'compact'.
2. It's obvious that I had not given the Sig P229 a fair shot. Once I practiced with it and committed to using it in a match, it outperformed my expectations.
3. Any gun that shoots that well should be described as 'Hunky' (as in hunky-dory), not chunky or clunky.
 O0
As much as I like my CZ's; and P-01 and P-07 especially; that Sig P229 Legion RX is growing on me.
OK, so maybe the controls on it are a bit 'different' than my CZ's; but the trigger and the matched RDS/BUIS set-up rocks!  I'm really glad I bought it.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:34:42 PM by Vinny »
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Offline rhart

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 09:06:08 AM »
The only thing I have against SIGs is my grip doesn't work with them since I changed the way I grip handguns. I used to shoot a SIG 226 in USPSA Production class just fine and made C class with it. It was originally a .40 caliber, but I bought a 9mm barrel and had it fitted.  I was a dyed-in-the-wool SIG fan until I discovered that I had better muzzle control with CZs. I quickly began approaching B class using the CZs. I was one classifier away from making B class when I started having extreme pain in my trigger finger and had to quit shooting for a couple of years (until I discovered unfiltered apple cider vinegar - now I'm back to occasionally shooting matches).

The reason my grip no longer seems compatible with SIGs is because I switched to a Bob Vogel style grip and my off-hand (left) rides the decocker lever and causes the SIG to occasionally decock the gun in the middle of a match if I slack off the grip momentarily. I suspect this will happen with an Omega decocker as well since they also rotate down and forward like a SIG - it's the reason I never bought an Omega model CZ (except for a P07 which I gifted to my oldest grandson).

Bottom line = SIGs are great guns in my experience, but I like the ergos of the CZ 75 models much better for my grip style.



Musashi:
- In all forms of strategy, it is necessary to maintain the combat stance in everyday life and to make your everyday stance your combat stance. (situational awareness).
- You can only fight the way you practice.
- If you do not control the enemy, the enemy will control you.

Offline Mercs

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CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2018, 12:41:23 AM »
I don’t understand the CZ decocker, and I don’t own one. It doesn’t fully decock the gun, so it seems sort of a useless complication to me. Manually lowering the hammer to half cock on a safety model is astonishingly simple. That’s all the decocker lever does? I thought that was the beauty in the original dual purpose hammer safety stop design (eliminates the hazard of manually decocking and also provide a safety). Now they’ve rigged these decocker levers onto the guns, which merely drops the hammer to safety stop for you so you don’t have to pull the trigger. You trade this “easy button” for the option to carry cocked and locked, and also lose the ability to convert to SA. Sounds awful to me. Its a less desirable answer to a question that was already answered during the original engineering. The Sig P229 does have a fully functioning decocker for those that might not want to carry half-cocked. It’s a notable difference, as far as value added imo. The fact remains, the only way to carry any CZ fully decocked is by manually lowering the hammer. I didn’t see anyone mentioning this as a difference between the guns yet in this topic. That being said I love the Sig Legion trigger it needs nothing out of the box, but I think the CZ wins based on personal grip/feel, and obviously I prefer the safety model P01


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« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:54:22 AM by Mercs »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2018, 04:58:36 AM »
The CZ decocker doesn't fully drop the hammer so it doesn't crash the hammer into the locked firing pin. The firing pin block makes the gun drop safe and it's nothing even close to new. They've been used for many years on many guns.
The Sig fully decocks the hammer but it's a totally different lockwork compared to the CZ.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2018, 06:27:24 AM »
I didn't understand the CZ decocker when I bought my P07.  I just knew I didn't want anything to do with a decocker.  I installed the safeties and never looked back.

My previous experience with decockers is my Browning BDM.  The darn thing works the opposite direction of the safety (up to fire, down to decock).  And, when in the down position the pistol will not fire.  So it's a combination of decocking and putting the pistol on safe.  You have to move the lever to the "up" position to fire the pistol.  Doesn't the Beretta M92 work that way as well?

The CZ's are "safe" when decocked, you just have to do a longer trigger pull.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline Vinny

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 07:58:08 AM »
I didn't understand the CZ decocker when I bought my P07.  I just knew I didn't want anything to do with a decocker.  I installed the safeties and never looked back.

My previous experience with decockers is my Browning BDM.  The darn thing works the opposite direction of the safety (up to fire, down to decock).  And, when in the down position the pistol will not fire.  So it's a combination of decocking and putting the pistol on safe.  You have to move the lever to the "up" position to fire the pistol.  Doesn't the Beretta M92 work that way as well?

The CZ's are "safe" when decocked, you just have to do a longer trigger pull.
Berettas are superb firearms; I owned an 8000 Cougar compact for a short time; but I never could get used to what seemed to me a 'backwards' safety. The ability to 'ride' the safety down with your strong thumb on a 1911 seems like the natural and safest way. I have a couple of 1911's I like, and switching back and forth from the Beretta to the 1911 was an accident waiting to happen. Something had to go, and it wasn't my 1911's.  ::)

My first CZ was a manual safety SP-01. It was easy to safely decock to engage DA using the 'thumb-roll' method with weak hand thumb between hammer and firing pin to prevent the hammer dropping on a live load. If I remember correctly, once the hammer is lowered to 1/2 cock, you can't accidentally engage the safety. Yes?

Anyhow, once I bought my P-01, I decided to just stay with one CZ manual of arms so I traded my SP-01 manual safety for a Tactical, then added RAMI BD, P-07 and P-09. Each has their own personality, but they all (decockers) work the same. The Sig P229 Legion as well.

Anyone who regularly carries a 1911 would of course find a decocker useless and confusing, and for good reason. Staying with one manual of arms on your EDC's just makes good sense IMHO.

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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-01 vs Sig 229 Legion
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2018, 09:57:43 AM »
I can carry a revolver today, a safety model like a 75B or 1911 tomorrow and a decocker the next and it doesn't interfere with my mind set in the least.I always know what I'm carrying and how it works.